Invitation


The work of David Bohm is close to my heart and I appreciate it as a precious field of wisdom I can tap into, in the actuality of the time we are living in. having a background of somatic experiencing, these two go very well together


I have been practicing the dialogue for several years now and while recently studying the works of David Bohm in the original language, the urge to explore this work with english speakers came up and here I am offering a group dialogue in english

I welcome you into a space where we could be

- extending the moment in the relative security that the circle offers in its simple, clear form
- offering space for what is currently showing itself and what wants to be communicated
- and thus witnessing the interweaving of what every participant brings to the middle,
- marveling at the emergence of the invisible, already contained in the visible becoming clearer and more tangible as the dialogue unfolds
- and, by following a deeper flow of order is responding to questions spoken or unspoken.

Maggie Boentges


David Bohm

Dr. Bohm has looked at the nature of thought in our daily lives - our reactions, hopes, pleasures, fears; and also at the social and environmental results of thought - nationalism, religious fractions, economic fragmentation, and so on. Through this investigation he has come to consider how people communicate. He points out that 'shared meaning' is the basis of culture and society, and that we absorb a great deal of that meaning - much has been experimenting with the notion of the process of dialogue as a way to coherent meaning. As he says in the text which follows:

"I'm suggesting that there is the possibility for a transformation of the nature of consciousness, both individually and collectively, and that whether this can be solved culturally and socially depends on dialogue. That 's what we're exploring."
David Bohm's interest in the question of communication is not new. He recalls, for example, conversations with Albert Einstein in the 1905's and later with J. Krishnamurti, with both of whom he felt 'intense energy' of listening and 'freedom from selfprotective reservations and barriers'.
dialogue can be among any number of people, not just two. Even one person can have a sense of dialogue within himself, if the spirit of the dialogue is present. A stream of meaning flowing among and through us and between us. This will make possible a flow of meaning in the whole group, out of which will emerge some new understanding. It's something new, which may not have been in the starting point at all. It's something creative. And this shared meaning is the 'glue' or 'cement' that holds people and societies together. David Bohm

Meetings to dialogue in Zuerich


we meet for the dialogue every three weeks

time: from 6.45 pm to 8.30 pm

venue: Konradstrasse 54 1st floor

bell: Gemeinschaftspraxis / Institut GFK

contribution: die Teilnahme ist kostenlos bzw. die Raummiete wird vom GFK getragen.
participants who are new to the dialogue after D.Bohm, will get a short introduction
die nächsten Daten im 2020

AIDA attention, interest, desire, action

iwe meet to connect to ourselves and to be in the presence of each other, exchanging about what is important in the moment to participate to make a cooperative effort to make a dialogue, to listen to other people's views, without resistance, we cannot do this, if we hold on to our own opinions and reject others
, it does not mean that we have to accept others opinions


we're seated in a circle and the first round is meant to arrive and share briefly how one is doing

during the main portion of the dialogue the participant who wants to share picks the talking stick and keeps it during the time of her/ his sharing, then places it back into the middle

there is always only one person speakiing
In the first round of the dialogue group, each participant can briefly comment on his / her state of mind, afterwards the dialogue room is open,
a speaking object lies in the middle, who wants to say something, fetches it and puts his / her contribution in the middle. Only those who hold the speaking object speak,
whoever speaks must not be interrupted. In a final round, the participants can briefly share their experience during the dialogue.


qualities favorable to dialogue


slowing down is helpful for being able to listen, see, sense

perception of sensations, emotions, movements, the breath

of the inner dialogue, assumptions,
listening, an important quality,

listening to oneself, to the inner interpretations, the arguments, the aprouval, the resistance,


suspending,

darauf verzichten, das, was wir beim uns selber Zuhören entdecken, weder anderen aufzunötigen, noch unterdrücken oder zurückhalten.

Wir lassen es sich entfalten und halten es "in der Schwebe", " damit wir mit Hilfe der anderen unsere Annahmen neu anschauen, erforschen können. Unsere Überzeugungen werden zugänglich für alle

"Suspension" ist eine schwierige und beeindruckende Kunst.

den anderen zuhören

die eigenen Überzeugungen und Annahmen in der Schwebe halten, den anderen zuhören, automatische Reaktionen bemerken und suspendieren, Interesse am Anderssein des anderen.

ist auch eine Auffaltung/Ausfaltung des zugrundeliegenden Impliziten, eine Art und Weise, das Gesamtpotential zu realisieren, eine Facette der "Wahrheit", des Ganzen. Eine, die "auch ich" sein kann, wenn in der Tiefe keine Fragmentierungen existent wären? Es ist eine gute Übung, zu denken: "Das" Nicht-Ich" wird zum "Auch-Ich".

dem Gruppenganzen zuhören

die aktive Zuhörfähigkeit auf die Gruppe auszudehnen. Kann ich dem "Gruppenlebewesen" zuhören? All das erfordert einen grösseren Blick/Hör/Spürwinkel, ein ausgedehntes Körperfeld, eine Bereitschaft, unser "Selbst" nicht innerhalb unserer Hautgrenzen zu verorten, sondern bereit zu sein, die Vorstellung eines individuellen "Selbst" als Fragmentierung zu erkennen und es versuchsweise anders zu spüren: als "Gruppen-Selbst" für eine Weile, vielleicht auch als "relationales Selbst". Das ist die Voraussetzung, dass dann auf einer kollektiven Ebene Emergenzen stattfinden können, Kreativität entsteht.

D. Bohm hatte die Vision, dass sich so das Potential realisieren kann, das sich durch uns, in uns als Gruppe entfalten will.

Sein Blickwinkel ist: Es gibt eigentlich keine Teile, die sich addieren oder zusammenfügen oder deren Beziehungen wir anschauen könnten, die Blickrichtung ist gerade umgekehrt. Es gibt das Ganze und nur durch Messung/Beobachtung entstehen so etwas wie "Teile". Der Bezugspunkt ändert sich dadurch, wichtig sind auch nicht persönliche Freundschaften unter den Beteiligten, sondern der "Geist der unpersönlichen Gemeinschaft "

sprechen

Was veranlasst jemanden zum Sprechen, welche Art des Sprechens ist im Dialog angemessen? Generell gilt, dass es günstig ist, jede schnelle automatisierte Antwort zu suspendieren und in eine untersuchende Frage umzuwandeln.

Diese besondere Art des Sprechens wird in der Bohm-Literatur "inquiry" genannt: im Innern suchen, erkundendes Sprechen, fragen, herausfinden, aufrichtig wissen wollen, interessiert sein. Das Interesse richtet sich auf meine eigenen Annahmen, auf die der anderen und vor allem auf die kollektiven, die uns als "implicit knowing" verbinden.

Gesprochen wird meist nicht zueinander oder aufeinander bezogen, sondern zur Mitte, in den Raum zwischen uns hinein, so dass alle Beteiligten freie Sicht haben auf all die "aufgehängten" Annahmen und sich neue kollektive Intelligenz entwickeln kann.

Alle sprechen

von Herzen

mit eigener, deutlicher, unverwechselbarer Stimme -und sind gleichzeitig Teil des Ganzen, eine Facette, eine Ausfaltung der Potentialität, mehr nicht. Das macht die einzelnen gleichzeitig wichtig und unwichtig, personales und interpersonales Dasein sind gleichzeitig notwendig.

Bohm nennt das

Partizipation

und manchmal ist diese grundlegende Interdependenz in einer Gruppe geradezu sinnlich wahrnehmbar

Dialogic qualities
slowing down and perceiving - listening, looking, feeling- listening to one self, to one's own inner monologue,
perceiving the interpretations, arguments, approval, rejection.
suspending - the temporary "queue" of assumptions, thoughts, impulses, the evaluations and all underlying feelings.

To Pay attention and listening to the overall process
as well to the one of the individual as the one of the group.
- "the image of a free flow of meaning that is flowing among us, through us and between us and enables a stream of meaning within the entire group, from which perhaps a new understanding can emerge. This insight is something new that may not have existed in the beginning. It is something creative. And this common sense is the "glue" or"Cement" that holds people and societies together "



D. Bohm. Speak "from the heart" - look inside, explore
Speak, ask, find out, sincerely want to know,
To be interested in.
Participation - participation, participation, thinking with each other and sometimes this basic interdependence in a group is perceptible to the senses.




Förderliche Bedingungen
Eine Dialoggruppe braucht einen festen Rahmen: Ort, Zeit, Dauer.
Rollen- und Status-Eigenschaften sind für die Dauer des Dialogs aufgehoben.
Nach einer Kennenlernphase ist eine gegenseitige Verpflichtung, für eine Weile dabei zu bleiben, von Vorteil.
Der Zweck des Unternehmens muss klar sein: wir wollen diese Art von gemeinsamer Erkundung erproben.
Der Dialog kann nicht funktionieren, wenn diese Vorgabe nicht von allen geteilt wird.
Bohm und seine KollegInnen haben immer nachdrücklich für den freien ("generativen") Dialog plädiert:
d.h. es gibt kein Thema, kein Ziel, nichts soll erreicht werden, nichts muss herauskommen.
Die Grundhaltung ist die des Lernen-Wollens, nicht die des Schon-Wissens.

Ablauf


Eincheck-Runde: Jede/r Teilnehmerin meldet sich an in der Runde und äussert sich kurz zu seiner/ihrer jetztigen Befindlichkeit. Der Sprechgegenstand geht im Kreis.
Dialog-Runde: Der Dialograum ist jetzt offen für Voten der verschiedenen Teilnehmerinnen. Der Sprechgegenstand liegt in der Mitte, wer etwas sagen will, holt den Sprechgegenstand, gibt seinen/ihren Beitrag und legt dann den Sprechgegenstand wieder zurück in die Mitte.
Nur wer den Sprechgegenstand hält spricht, wer spricht, darf nicht unterbrochen werden.
Auscheck-Runde: Die Teilnehmenden können abschliessend ihre Erfahrung während des Dialogs kurz teilen. Der Sprechgegenstand geht im Kreis.




for questions and enrollment, please use the following email adress:
info@dialogzuerich.ch


about David Bohm

Professor David Bohm was born in Pennsylvania in 1917, and earned his PhD at Berkeley under Robert Oppenheimer. He is currently Emeritus Professor at Theoretical Physics at the University of London, and is a Fellow of the Royal Society. His published works include: Quantum Theory, Causality and Chance in Modern Physics, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, and co-authorship of Science, Order and Creativity.While Dr. Bohm is best known in academic circles as a theoretical physicist, he has long had interest in subjects considered outside the purview of traditional 'science'. The nature of thought and consciousness and how they affect both the individual and the society is one such topic, and he says it is critical that we reach a better understanding of that question if we are to survive and lead meaningful lives. Dr. Bohm has looked at the nature of thought in our daily lives - our reactions, hopes, pleasures, fears; and also at the social and environmental results of thought - nationalism, religious fractions, economic fragmentation, and so on. Through this investigation he has come to consider how people communicate. He points out that 'shared meaning' is the basis of culture and society, and that we absorb a great deal of that meaning - much has been experimenting with the notion of the process of dialogue as a way to coherent meaning. As he says in the text which follows: "I'm suggesting that there is the possibility for a transformation of the nature of consciousness, both individually and collectively, and that whether this can be solved culturally and socially depends on dialogue. That 's what we're exploring."David Bohm's interest in the question of communication is not new. He recalls, for example, conversations with Albert Einstein in the 1905's and later with J. Krishnamurti, with both of whom he felt 'intense energy' of listening and 'freedom from selfprotective reservations and barriers'. Currently he has been trying to bring that sort of attitude to a group situation. In May, 1984, what was intended to be a weekend seminar consisting of three lectures and discussions developed into what Dr. Bohm called 'the awakening of the process of dialogue itself as a free flow of meaning among all the participants'. That weekend is documented in the book Unfolding Meaning. Dr. Bohm has talked on dialogue and participated in groups in England, Europe, Israel, and the United States



“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely
rearranging their prejudices.”
― David Bohm
 
“Perhaps there is more sense in our nonsense and more nonsense in our 'sense' than we would care to believe.”
― David Bohm
 

“Suppose we were able to share meanings freely without a compulsive urge to impose our view or conform to those of others and without distortion and self-deception. Would this not constitute a real revolution in culture? ”
― David Bohm
 
“The ability to perceive or think differently is more important than the knowledge gained.”
― David Bohm

“There is a difficulty with only one person changing. People call that person a great saint or a great mystic or a great leader, and they say, 'Well, he's different from me - I could never do it.' What's wrong with most people is that they have this block - they feel they could never make a difference, and therefore, they never face the possibility, because it is too disturbing, too frightening.”
― David Bohm
 
“Ultimately, all moments are really one, therefore now is an eternity.”
― David Bohm
 
“Universe consists of frozen light.”
― David Bohm
 
“Space is not empty. It is full, a plenum as opposed to a vacuum, and is the ground for the existence of everything, including ourselves. The universe is not separate from this cosmic sea of energy.”
― David Bohm
 

“Indeed, the attempt to live according to the notion that the fragments are really separate is, in essence, what has led to the growing series of extremely urgent crises that is confronting us today.”
― David Bohm
 

“For both the rich and the poor, life is dominated by an ever growing current of problems, most of which seem to have no real and lasting solution. Clearly we have not touched the deeper causes of our troubles. It is the main point of this book that the ultimate source of all these problems is in thought itself, the very thing of which our civilization is most proud, and therefore the one thing that is “hidden” because of our failure seriously to engage with its actual working in our own individual lives and in the life of society.”
― David Bohm
 

“But what is [the] quality of originality? It is very hard to define or specify. Indeed, to define originality would in itself be a contradiction, since whatever action can be defined in this way must evidently henceforth be unoriginal. Perhaps, then, it will be best to hint at it obliquely and by indirection, rather than to try to assert positively what it is.

One prerequisite for originality is clearly that a person shall not be inclined to impose his preconceptions on the fact as he sees it. Rather, he must be able to learn something new, even if this means that the ideas and notions that are comfortable or dear to him may be overturned.

But the ability to learn in this way is a principle common to the whole of humanity. Thus it is well known that a child learns to walk, to talk, and to know his way around the world just by trying something out and seeing what happens, then modifying what he does (or thinks) in accordance with what has actually happened. In this way, he spends his first few years in a wonderfully creative way, discovering all sorts of things that are new to him, and this leads people to look back on childhood as a kind of lost paradise. As the child grows older, however, learning takes on a narrower meaning. In school, he learns by repetition to accumulate knowledge, so as to please the teacher and pass examinations. At work, he learns in a similar way, so as to make a living, or for some other utilitarian purpose, and not mainly for the love of the action of learning itself. So his ability to see something new and original gradually dies away. And without it there is evidently no ground from which anything can grow.”
― David Bohm


“Thus, in scientific research, a great deal of our thinking is in terms of theories. The word ‘theory’ derives from the Greek ‘theoria’, which has the same root as ‘theatre’, in a word meaning ‘to view’ or ‘to make a spectacle’. Thus, it might be said that a theory is primarily a form of insight, i.e. a way of looking at the world, and not a form of knowledge of how the world is.”
― David Bohm

“some might say: ‘Fragmentation of cities, religions, political systems, conflict in the form of wars, general violence, fratricide, etc., are the reality. Wholeness is only an ideal, toward which we should perhaps strive.’ But this is not what is being said here. Rather, what should be said is that wholeness is what is real, and that fragmentation is the response of this whole to man’s action, guided by illusory perception, which is shaped by fragmentary thought.”
― David Bohm

“All effort to bring order into disorder is disorder.”
― David Bohm
 
“many individuals going beyond the ‘normal’ limits of fragmentation are classified as paranoid, schizoid, psychotic, etc.”
― David Bohm
 

“The notion of a separate organism is clearly an abstraction, as is also its boundary. Underlying all this is unbroken wholeness even though our civilization has developed in such a way as to strongly emphasize the separation into parts.”
― David Bohm

“individual thought is mostly the result of collective thought and of interaction with other people. The language is entirely collective, and most of the thoughts in it are. Everybody does his own thing to those thoughts – he makes a contribution. But very few change them very much.”
― David Bohm
 

“If each one of us can give full attention to what is actually ‘blocking’ communication while he is also attending properly to the content of what is communicated, then we may be able to create something new between us, something of very great significance for bringing to an end the at present insoluble problems of the individual and of society.”
― David Bohm
 

“What prevents theoretical insights from going beyond existing limitations and changing to meet new facts is just the belief that theories give true knowledge of reality (which implies, of course, that they need never change).”
― David Bohm


“The notion that all these fragments are separately existent is evidently an illusion, and this illusion cannot do other than lead to endless conflict and confusion.”
― David Bohm
 
“Indeed, the attempt to live according to the notion that the fragments are really separate is, in essence, what has led to the growing series of extremely urgent crises that is confronting us today. Thus, as is now well known, this way of life has brought about pollution, destruction of the balance of nature, over-population, world-wide economic and political disorder, and the creation of an overall environment that is neither physically nor mentally healthy for most of the people who have to live in it.”
― David Bohm
 

“culture – the collectively shared meaning”
― David Bohm, On Dialogue


“You may not even have known that you had an assumption. It was only because he came up with the opposite one that you find out that you have one. You may uncover other assumptions, but we are all suspending them and looking at them all, seeing what they mean.”
― David Bohm
 

“The question is how our own meanings are related to those of the universe as a whole. We could say that our action toward the whole universe is a result of what it means to be us.”
― David Bohm


“[T]here is a universal flux that cannot be defined explicitly but which can be known only implicitly, as indicated by the explicitly definable forms and shapes, some stable and some unstable, that can be abstracted from the universal flux. In this flow, mind and matter are not separate substances. Rather, they are different aspects of our whole and unbroken movement.”
― David Bohm
 

“Clarity of perception and thought evidently requires that we be generally aware of how our experience is shaped by the insight (clear or confused) provided by the theories that are implicit or explicit in our general ways of thinking.”
― David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order
 

“The notion that the one who thinks (the Ego) is at least in principle completely separate from and independent of the reality that he thinks about is of course firmly embedded in our entire tradition.”
― David Bohm
 

“On the whole, you could say that if you are defending your opinions, you are not serious. Likewise, if you are trying to avoid something unpleasant inside of yourself, that is also not being serious. A great deal of our whole life is not serious. And society teaches you that. It teaches you not to be very serious – that there are all sorts of incoherent things, and there is nothing that can be done about it, and that you will only stir yourself up uselessly by being serious. But in a dialogue you have to be serious. It is not a dialogue if you are not – not in the way I’m using the word. There is a story about Freud when he had cancer of the mouth. Somebody came up to him and wanted to talk to him about a point in psychology. The person said, “Perhaps I’d better not talk to you, because you’ve got this cancer which is very serious. You may not want to talk about this.” Freud’s answer was, “This cancer may be fatal, but it’s not serious.” And actually, of course, it was just a lot of cells growing. I think a great deal of what goes on in society could be described that way – that it may well be fatal, but it’s not serious.”
― David Bohm


“In the dialogue people should talk directly to one another, one to one, across the circle. Then the time would come, if we got to know each other a bit and could trust each other, when you could speak very directly to the whole group, or to anybody in it.”
― David Bohm
 

“it is widely felt that if there is to be any general world view it should be taken as the ‘received’ and ‘final’ notion concerning the nature of reality. But my attitude has, from the beginning, been that our notions concerning cosmology and the general nature of reality are in a continuous process of development, and that one may have to start with ideas that are merely some sort of improvement over what has thus far been available, and to go on from there to ideas that are better.”


Quotes from David Bohm


The ability to perceive or think differently

is more important than the knowledge gained.

David Bohm

Suppose we were able to share meanings freely without a compulsive urge to impose our view or conform to those of others and without distortion and self-deception.

Would this not constitute a real revolution in culture. David Bohm

A corporation is organized as a system -

it has this department, that department, that department... they don't have any meaning separately;

they only can function together. And also the body is a system. Society is a system in some sense. And so on. David Bohm

A new kind of mind thus beings to come into being which is based on the development of a common meaning that is constantly transforming in the process of the dialogue. David Bohm

And thought struggles against the results, trying to avoid those unpleasant results while keeping on with that way of thinking. That is what I call 'sustained incoherence. David Bohm

But the way people commonly use the word nowadays it means something all of whose parts are mutually interdependent - not only for their mutual action, but for their meaning and for their existence. David Bohm

But you don't decide what to do with the info. Thought runs you. Thought, however, gives false info that you are running it, that you are the one who controls thought. Whereas actually thought is the one which controls each one of us. David Bohm

During the past few decades, modern technology, with radio, TV, air travel, and satellites, has woven a network of communication which puts each part of the world in to almost instant contact with all the other parts. David Bohm

Indeed, the attempt to live according to the notion that the fragments are really separate is, in essence, what has led to the growing series of extremely urgent crises that is confronting us today. David Bohm

My suggestion is that at each state the proper order of operation of the mind requires an overall grasp of what is generally known, not only in formal logical, mathematical terms, but also intuitively, in images, feelings, poetic usage of language, etc. David Bohm

People are no longer primarily in opposition, nor can they be said to be interacting, rather they are participating in this pool of common meaning which is capable of constant development and change. David Bohm

Similarly, thought is a system. That system not only includes thought and feelings, but it includes the state of the body; it includes the whole of society - as thought is passing back and forth between people in a process by which thought evolved from ancient times. David Bohm

So one begins to wonder what is going to happen to the human race. Technology keeps on advancing with greater and greater power, either for good or for destruction. David Bohm

Then there is the further question of what is the relationship of thinking to reality. As careful attention shows, thought itself is in an actual process of movement. David Bohm This is another major feature of thought: Thought doesn't know it is doing something and then it struggles against it is doing. It doesn't want to know that it is doing it. David Bohm

This kind of overall way of thinking is not only a fertile source of new theoretical ideas: it is needed for the human mind to function in a generally harmonious way, which could in turn help to make possible an orderly and stable society. David Bohm

Thought has been constantly evolving and we can't say when that system began. David Bohm

Thought is constantly creating problems that way and then trying to solve them. But as it tries to solve them it makes it worse because it doesn't notice that it's creating them, and the more it thinks, the more problems it creates. David Bohm

Thought is creating divisions out of itself and then saying that they are there naturally. David Bohm

We havent really paid much attention to thought as a process. we have engaged in thoughts, but we have only paid attention to the content, not to the process. David Bohm What is the source of all this trouble? I'm saying that the source is basically in thought. Many people would think that such a statement is crazy, because thought is the one thing we have with which to solve our problems. That's part of our tradition. David Bohm

Yet it looks as if the thing we use to solve our problems with is the source of our problems. It's like going to the doctor and having him make you ill. In fact, in 20% of medical cases we do apparently have that going on. But in the case of thought, its far over 20%. David Bohm

Yet, in spite of this world-wide system of linkages, there is, at this very moment, a general feeling that communication is breaking down everywhere, on an unparalleled scale. David Bohm

In relativity, movement is continuous, causally determinate and well defined, while in quantum mechanics it is discontinuous, not causally determinate and not well defined. David Bohm

One thus sees that a new kind of theory is needed which drops these basic commitments and at most recovers some essential features of the older theories as abstract forms derived from a deeper reality in which what prevails in unbroken wholeness. David Bohm Individuality is only possible if it unfolds from wholeness. David Bohm

In some sense man is a microcosm of the universe; therefore what man is, is a clue to the universe. We are enfolded in the universe. David Bohm
Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/david-bohm-quotes

We, a group of people who have been in dialogue for several years, invite you to our dialogue group
Extending the moment in the relative security that the circle offers in its simple, clear form -
offering space for what is currently showing itself and what wants to be communicated - and thus witness the interweaving of what everyone brings to the center,
Astonished at the emerging of the invisible, which is already contained in the visible and becomes clearer and more tangible as the dialogue unfolds
and by following a deeper flow of order, answers questions spoken or unspoken.
We look forward to you!

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nullam porttitor augue a turpis porttitor maximus. Nulla luctus elementum felis, sit amet condimentum lectus rutrum eget.